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Author Topic: Plane Noise Again  (Read 57348 times)
roger
Guest
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2008, 11:54:12 AM »

Tina! try living in hounslow and see what they have to put up with.
If only it was possible to run larger planes during the day and small planes which gain height quickly at night.
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megan
Guest
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2008, 03:06:36 PM »

I have to say, I don't really notice plane noise at all, and I'm not hard of hearing!   Living up High Road, there's more traffic noise!
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Tina
Guest
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2008, 03:37:13 PM »

The point here is that we don't live in Hounslow, where constant noise would be expected, and for that reason I would not live there.

What I would like to know is, if aircraft noise has not been a problem in Cookham until very recently, why can't it be avoided now?
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Paperclip1
Guest
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2008, 07:46:47 AM »

I don’t think Hounslow expected all the plane noise 30 odd years ago....but the point is things change!
Cookham is only a stone throw away from the airport, I think we have been very lucky to have it so peaceful for so long. And like I said after living in London for 20odd years you do get use to it.

And why you ask is it that the planes have just started going over Cookham.....well I guessing that’s because of T5....and be honest, how many of you are going to go to Heathrow and possible fly in or out of T5...or have done already! Cake and eat it comes to mind.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 08:53:40 AM by global mod » Logged
Biggles
Guest
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2008, 07:53:08 AM »

Further to what Plane Complainer said about contacting our local MP, this can be done online here...

http://www.tmay.co.uk/contact/

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Plane Complainer
Guest
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2008, 08:55:36 AM »

Interesting ideas Paperclip1. Your argument seems to be that 95% of us use aircraft at least once a year and so therefore we should put up with the noise. I use a toilet everyday and do not expect to see or smell the results of this habit. Your idea of ‘it’s noisy there so it should be noisy everywhere’ is also odd. Are you saying that the nosiest cities in the world (Athens, San Francisco etc.) define the acceptable noise level for every community? If they get louder then can the planes start flying even lower?

Now on to business. The current situation (from midway through the weekend) is caused by the wind coming from an Easterly direction. Therefore the planes take off (and land) to the East. When this happens we are on the landing path. This is quite reasonable: the aircraft have to form an orderly line (roughly along the A4) and land at Heathrow using a ‘continuous descent’ approach. There is probably not a lot we can do about the height and the approach path.
 
My main gripe is the lowness of the aircraft on takeoff. I cannot think why they have to overfly Cookham at just over 3,000 feet. Does anyone have an idea? I know we are quite close to the airport but being at that height over Cookham does equate to an average take off angle of about 3 degrees! It is this that I think we should be complaining about. Such a low height surely interferes with bird life (does anyone have citations?), causes low-level atmospheric pollution and the noise level closer to the airport (Taplow, Dorney) must border on intolerable.

I am also aware that the current market conditions imply a drop in air travel. However I don’t think we an afford to be complacent: travel demand might recover and even if the volume of air traffic to and from Heathrow does fall, the flightpaths will remain as will the noisy traffic; albeit less of it.

Is Cookham worth protecting? If so then how? We need to be realistic about what we can expect and keep up the pressure on the elected authorities so this issue remains key.

Might I recommend a concrete apartment block in Cairo, Paperclip1?
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Paperclip1
Guest
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2008, 09:03:01 AM »

Plane complainer... you do make me laugh.

I wish you the best of luck!
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Plane Complainer
Guest
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2008, 09:21:54 AM »

:-) You can help too Paperclip1; http:://www.tmay.co.uk/contact
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Rob
Guest
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2008, 11:06:03 AM »


Some answers here. It's probably the noise abatement procedure that is making aircraft taking off lower here.
Bear in mind that the microwave landing system when used may share the noise problem because landing aircraft are not forced to follow a narrow beam away from the airport.

http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-9923.html
http://www.britishairways.com/travel/csr-operating-procedures/public/en_us

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Dean resident
Guest
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2008, 10:04:22 AM »

Plane complainer - you must admit that paperclip has a point? Many local residents and businesses benefit enormously from our close proximity to Heathrow. Along with the excellent train service from Cookham, it's one of the reasons I moved here. And I'm sure the same applies to many others. Fact is the prosperity of our villages is in some way connected to the success of Heathrow. And the airport's been there for decades and anyone with any nouse will take this into account when moving into the area.

The main point of my message is that only in exceptional / emergency circumstances are planes taking-off over the cookhams. Let's be very clear - the planes you see overhead on the flight path over cookham village, cookham rise and cookham dean is for planes 'landing' at Heathrow. The take-off flight path is routed over towards Taplow and Flackwell Heath, occasionally flirting with the eastern edges of Bourne End / Hedsor. Recent proposals if implemented will ensure the width of the flight path is reduced - which will in turn mean the take-off flight path is routed further from the cookhams than it is today = good news.

Please base your discussions on facts rather than emotion. Planes are easy to voice-off about. We'd all be stuck without them.
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Birdman
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 370


« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2008, 12:07:12 PM »

Just to respond to the bit about bird strikes; there are hardly any birds around at 3000 feet so by the time planes get to us, 'our' birds are safe. Less the case around the airport itself of course, and many techniques are employed to disperse birds regularly throughout the day at most busy airports.

As to the noise itself, I think much aggrevation derives from the promises we had that T5 did not mean more traffic, as it was designed for king-sized jumbos which would carry the additional passengers travelling without increase in aircraft movements.

Shortly after these assurances, Boeing dropped the idea of building such planes and the objectives were flawed overnight, hence the decision to u-turn on the building of a third runway. The European 'double-jumbo' could get us back to fewer aircraft movements but currently, long after the opening of T5, I think there are only 4 movements of this craft per day? (mind you, it looks very striking when it goes over!)
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James Hatch
Golden Hatch
******
Posts: 2307


« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2008, 05:34:11 PM »

Now let us take another reason for the increase in decibels. These two factors come to mind from experience. You have all had a very wet summer, agreed. Well moisture as well as extreme frost will amplify sound below 20,000 hertz. So your night time flights when the air is cool and wet, the amplification will increase. So, if you are lucky to get a dry spell, do take note of the difference. See if you can obtain a recording decibel meter and set it up. The facts will be in the print out.
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Jo Jo
Full Member
***
Posts: 228


« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2008, 08:01:51 PM »

James, the reason that we now have more aircraft noise is that the flight paths and heights of the planes has been changed as someone has already mentioned. The Council even went to court over it. That is a much better reason for more noise. Also the noise is not just at nights, in fact it is worse during the day as the planes come every three to four minutes or so. I saw a TV programme that said that the statistics on the noise had been manipulated, as they in fact contravene EU directives.
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James Hatch
Golden Hatch
******
Posts: 2307


« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2008, 09:04:47 PM »

This is why I mentioned a recording decibel meter, then you have the facts to show. I to would not trust facts and figures produced by the airport authority. No government agency should be policing itself. You know that civil servants, and it does not matter which country you live in, resemble those senior bureaucrats in the TV series of "Yes Minister!. As a village you will have to do it yourselves, relying on a outside source can be manipulated.
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James Hatch
Golden Hatch
******
Posts: 2307


« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2008, 09:38:53 PM »

Let me explain to you all once again. The predominant wind direction in the London area is from the south-west. All aircraft have to take off as close as possible into wind. Each aircraft using the same runway has to wait 3 minutes before taking off behind the preceding aircraft, to let the vortex effect disappear. Prior to take off each captain is given what is known as a clearance. In this clearance he is given a specific heading and altitude for safety separation. Then to contact London Centre for radar identification and further clearances. That in a nutshell is what's happening. Why not ask any airline pilot living in or near Cookham to ratify what I have just said.

Now, all I can say is for you to pray for a good steady North East Wind. Then you will get the landing aircraft, but their engines will not be going full bore.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 09:44:39 PM by James Hatch » Logged
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