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Author Topic: Plane Noise Again  (Read 60833 times)
simon
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Posts: 37


« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2008, 03:51:18 PM »

Well, there's your answer, Tina - just wait for a good north-east wind to blow up before you next invite friends to tea!
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Jo Jo
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Posts: 228


« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2008, 04:36:31 PM »

James, you don't think that the extra noise could also be due to the fact that the aircraft have now dropped 2,000 feet over Cookham from 5,000 to 3,000 feet?
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Showem
Sr. Member
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Posts: 365


« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2008, 04:38:35 PM »

Well the plane noise could soon disappear if Boris Johnson has his way: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/3041662/Boris-Johnson-wants-London-airport-on-island-in-Thames-to-replace-Heathrow.html

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The scheme could be up and running within six years and is likely to be located near the Isle of Sheppey in Kent. Passengers would be transported to and from central London on high-speed trains in about 35 minutes with luggage checked in at the station rather than the airport.
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James Hatch
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Posts: 2333


« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2008, 07:28:48 PM »

In reply to JoJo: Yes of course it would, the problem is with London Air Taffic Controll Centre. They may have a safety reason for it, only they can answer that one. You see the air traffic density in the London area has grown so big in the past few years, it has become a controllers nightmare. You may not know this, the working life span of a Instrument Flight Rule contoller is very short due to the pressure they work under. They simply just burn out.
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Jo Jo
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Posts: 228


« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2008, 12:41:58 AM »

James, the government is arguing that because the night flights scheme pools noise data over the three London airports, it does not have to take specific action on what is a Heathrow problem. Although probably half the early morning planes coming in to Heathrow would not be allowed to fly in, if the government looked at Heathrow in isolation. Also if you look at the website given to us by Mark, you will see that the planes are landing not taking off http://lhr.webtrak-lochard.com/template/index.html.

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James Hatch
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Posts: 2333


« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2008, 02:01:45 AM »

I was a civil servant as well at one time! This is an old trick, where they take a group of statistics, lump them all together and divide by three or four,or what ever suits their needs. In other words try and pull the wool over your eyes, and that of anyone else.

A independant sound survey is the only way to go, and bear any weight it would have to be carried out by the local council and be certified evidence.
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Jo Jo
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Posts: 228


« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2008, 11:03:37 AM »

James, if you had read this thread, that is exactly what has happened, several Councils are trying to take the government to court over it, you can read the Press Release on page 1 of this thread. Also it is not the flight controllers who have decided on this, it was an expensive consultation document set up by the government on changing the flight paths and heights of the planes making assumptions that will not happen, so they can get round EU rulings as they are hell bent on a third runway. In addition the government failed to inform half a million people who they said they would contact for feedback including Cookham Parish Council. Maidenhead Council along with many others plus the Mayor of London are fighting it and have applied for Judicial Review.
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James Hatch
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Posts: 2333


« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2008, 02:55:18 PM »

Sorry JoJo: Your thread you posted would not come through my filter network. Thanks for putting me in the picture.
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simon
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Posts: 37


« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2008, 01:29:57 PM »

Good idea, but let's try to do this the correct way.

Members of Cookham Parish Council should also be there, so that they can tell us clearly what the options for Cookham are/have been to date and exactly what they have done about it for us so far, and will be doing.

The Parish Council will have received all the official documentation on this matter which the Cookham public needs to see and, as our elected representatives, they should now be leading the parish in whatever action is necessary.

There is strong feeling on this, so will the Crown be big enough?
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CH
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Posts: 227


« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2008, 01:39:03 PM »

Sounds like a great plan.  Anyone know when the deadline is for consultation.  We don't want to get ourselves organised only to find out we've missed our chance to have a say.
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James Hatch
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Posts: 2333


« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2008, 02:37:52 PM »

Good to see you are getting organised: Remember it all very good to fill in forms and sign them but, you must have recorded evidence to go with it. Otherwise they will find another excuse to brush you aside.
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Jo Jo
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Posts: 228


« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2008, 05:35:58 PM »

I believe the Cookham Society are looking at the problem of flights and noise. What we can do is bombard the Heathrow Airport Noise Line which is free of charge on 0800 344 844 where specialised trained staff will do all they can to investigate whether an aircraft has broken the rules and, if possible, try to prevent it happening again.  There is a quota of night flights that is permissible.

You can see the NATS proposals for the 'both way' use of the runways by 2009 and the third runway proposals at:
http://www.consultation.nats.co.uk/downloads/13/download_consultation_document.html/

There was an article in the Times yesterday saying the government was going to ignore feedback and go ahead with their plans for a third runway anyway. It even mentions a fourth runway and a seventh Terminal!

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article4806137.ece

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James Hatch
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Posts: 2333


« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2008, 10:58:57 PM »

Don't wait for elections to come round Jabber. The best for you to do is start campaigning now. You, will I am sure get quite a lot of supporting followers and votes.
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simon
Newbie
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Posts: 37


« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2008, 04:09:30 PM »

Perhaps the lull has been due to the fact that everyone has to register for Discussions now and it seems from the lower volume of posts that many won't do this.

The Parish Council has more power to use on Cookham residents' behalf than anyone else, so the public strength of feeling communicated through the council should carry the most weight. The Cookham Society's input would be a strong and welcome back-up.

If CPC members are invited to the proposed meeting, residents can hopefully read the official documentation they hold, hear what CPC done so far, if anything (reports on this vary) and, once that is clarified, act accordingly. There is no point in rushing in blindly and re-doing something in a way which has not previously worked, when past experience and some official background knowledge could suggest a better way forward.

Whoever is organising this meeting will realise that there will be a lot of support. Delaying it further could be disastrous as there must be deadlines.

One gets the feeling that nothing more will be done by/for Cookham unless the public acts quickly and vociferously in protest about the planes.  Sad
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Jane Davey
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Posts: 4


« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2008, 11:07:43 PM »

Hello there,

If you look back over the posts on this board you will see that I posted this back in May regarding the apparent increase in planes over Cookham,

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'I'm looking into this issue in behalf of the Cookham Society.HACAN 'reassure' me that the current noise is down to the unusual sustained Easterlies that are prevailing at the moment - it seems to have been going on an awfully long time so if there are any weather experts out there maybe you could e-mail me to tell me whether this rings true.

More urgently the deadline is imminent for consultation on the proposal by NATS to change the routes over Maidenhead which mean aircraft will be able to fly over Cookham at a reduced height - the deadline for responses is 19th June and some of the issues are referred to earlier in these posts.

I'm trying to research exactly how significant the effect of these changes might be on Cookham (basically how much noiser would it appear from the ground) and would love to hear from any techie experts out there - Birdman? Mark? Anyone? - who can help me intrepret the data. E-mail me if you can contribute any info at all.

In the meantime if you wish to voice your opinion on the proposal you can do so via NATS at www.nats.co.uk/TCNconsultation.  Don't forget, responses have to be in by 19th June.'

Unfortunately I didn't receive any responses from anyone at all at the time showing any interest in this issue. However I went ahead and filed a response on behalf of The Cookham Society members and which I reported on on this forum in early September.

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'We did file a response to NATS from the Cookham Society on behalf of all its members objecting to the proposed changes. However with all these things it's imperative that individuals and Parish Councils respond as well. In Hertfordshire there was a substantial public response and NATS are considering moving the propsed routes in response to the outcry. The interim feedback report can be seen at the NATS website.'

I have today received a letter from NATS saying they are still considering all the feedack in detail before reporting to the CAA some time next year.

On the issue of the development of Heathrow then there is a highly vociferous campaign against the third runway championed by HACAN and it is worth visitng their website at www.hacan.org.uk which gives loads of details about petitons, press campaigns and demonstrations in the offing.

 I hope you will see that on behalf of The Cookham Society I am trying hard to keep a watching brief on all these issues and to make representations on behalf of its members but I am not an aviation expert and it is a massive and highly technical area. In the meantime there is nothing to stop any group or individuals from pressing MP's, councillors and all elected representatives on what their polices are about Heathrow expansion or the NATS changes to flight paths (although the consultation deadline for the latter was in June as set out in my earlier post and I don't know whether or not the Parish Council made a formal response before the deadline). These elected bodies carry more weight than a 'voluntary organisation' like the Cookham Society ever can but they can only represent views that are canvassed with them. It's important that the Parish Council is made aware of how strongly people feel about this issue of air traffic over Cookham, if indeed people do feel strongly. Similarly it's always worth writing to the local MP and making it clear if this is an important electoral issue for her constituents.

In the meantime I'm happy to carry on posting here any info that comes my way that seems relevant to the air traffic issue if that would be useful.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 11:09:26 PM by Jane Davey » Logged
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